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What is the 5.4l spark plug problem?

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Mark05KR
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 9:40a

Can someone tell me about the problem with the 5.4l engine where the spark plugs come out on their own?

The wife was driving her Expy this weekend when she heard a noise from under the hood that sounded like it was backfiring. I went to pick her up and checked under the hood. One of the spark plugs (third one from the front, drivers side) had been pushed right out of the head. The coil pack was touching the underside of the fuel rail.

I remember reading something about this happening due to not enough threads in the spark plug holes?

What years are affected by this problem? Our Expy is a 2000 and has almost 150,000 miles. What is the fix for this?

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DAFBFD58
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 9:52a

I dont remember if there is a recall on it or not, but your right there was not enough threads to hold them in, something like that.

Tom in Tacoma
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 9:57a

Yep, yep - the 5.4's blow out the plugs. It's more of a Lighting issue but it does happen to the NA versions as well. Stick around for the fix - I don't know specifically what the solution is.

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 10:05a

Seems strange that it took 150,000 miles before happening.

Well, the truck is sitting at the garage, waiting to get looked at. I'm not looking forward to finding out how much this is going to cost to get fixed.

Eric B.
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 10:59a

The proper fix is a new head, but some people have gotten away with using a helicoil.

http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.asp

Edited by - Eric B. on August 21 2006 11:00a

MrSVTGal
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 1:16p

For warranty purposes, Ford says that the Helicoil is not good enough, and they replace the whole head. Parts and labor to do that job out of warranty is probably $1500 or more (probably more!).

Meanwhile, other folks who are out of warranty have seemed to get by just fine with the Helicoil (cost... $20? 50?).

Unless you can get Ford to pay for it somehow (with 150k miles?) I think the cost ratio favors Helicoil by a wide margin.

The problem is only having '3' threads to hold the plug in. Lots of times, if the plug is under tightened, the plug hammers back and forth on the threads with every combustion cycle. If it's overtightened, the small number of threads is overstressed and can easily begin to strip out of the head. Either way, the threads eventually strip out and the plug comes out.

Mr. SVTGal

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 2:24p

I would guess that they still have to pull the head in order to install the Helicoil?

We used to use Helicoils years ago to repair stripped out screw holes in jigs we used for electroplating. The process was to drill the hole out oversize and insert the Helicoil to bring the size back down to the correct size for the screw, or in this case, the spark plug.

Mike
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 2:55p

I'm not sure how they did it, but when our old mitsubishi eclipse blew a spark plug, they helicoiled the sparkplug hole without pulling the head. The whole thing took about 20 minutes to do and we never had another problem with it.

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 6:13p

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike

I'm not sure how they did it, but when our old mitsubishi eclipse blew a spark plug, they helicoiled the sparkplug hole without pulling the head. The whole thing took about 20 minutes to do and we never had another problem with it.

Now that would be a good result. I love fast and (relatively) cheap. I was not looking forward to dumping $1500 or more into a vehicle with 150k on the ticker.

Although the dealership where the truck is still has an '06 Mustang GT on the lot. Maybe time for a trade in?

Sportruk
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 6:34p

The Helicoil is not the correct type of repair for spark plug.
While a new head is the only repair approved by Ford, a lot of people have had successful repairs made with the Time-Sert. I heard the kit is in the neighborhood of $200, but you don't need to remove the head to do it. If the dealer will not do this type of repair, you might have to take it to an independant shop.
http://www.timesert.com/html/ford_sparkplug_faq.html
http://forddefects.com/repair.php

Eric B.
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Posted - August 21 2006 : 6:43p

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/hel5396-14.html

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 22 2006 : 8:14a

Thanks everyone for all the information on this.

I heard from the dealer's service department this morning. They checked out the problem and damage and they are going to repair it with an insert. I was not told, nor did I ask, what brand or kind of insert. I guess I will find that out when I get the truck back.

Total cost is going to be around $325.00. I can live with that.

Sportruk
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Posted - August 22 2006 : 4:49p

Sounds like a reasonable price. 2 or 3 hours labour and parts. I only knew of the Big-sert insert. I didn't know Heli-coil made the same type of insert.

Mort
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Posted - August 22 2006 : 9:44p

Perhaps after the insert is installed, the Mustang GT can happen? They'd definately give you more in trade for a running vehicle than a non-running one.

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 23 2006 : 8:09a

Quote:

Originally posted by Mort

Perhaps after the insert is installed, the Mustang GT can happen? They'd definitely give you more in trade for a running vehicle than a non-running one.

I have been looking on ebay at Mustangs. The biggest problem is convincing the wife that now is the time to sell her truck.

Picked up the Expy last night and all is well. It did cost $325.00. That included a new spark plug and a new coil pack, plus the insert and labor. Sounded like a reasonable price.

When they were bringing the truck into the bay they noticed that the back wheel(s) were dragging. They pulled the back wheels and found that the e-brake pads on one wheel were deformed. Since they had just installed them back in December, they replaced them at no charge. The mileage was over the warranty period for the pads so they back it down on the paperwork.

I like this dealership. Townsend Ford in Townsend, MA. Good people.

FarFromStockF150
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Posted - August 23 2006 : 8:29a

Wow! That price isn't even worth your time and effort to try to DIY. Plus, I'm sure it comes with a warranty. It sounds like Townsend is really taking good care of you. It's nice to see that not all dealerships are the crooks they've been made out to be.

Greez Lightning
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Posted - August 23 2006 : 8:51a

Lightnings are most affected but all other 5.4 heads are subject to the same problem. I think the years are 99 to 02.
In 03 they put more threads in the heads.

There are only 4 threads in the stock heads of those years.

Now there are 8.

I put high performance heads on which come with 12 threads.

There is no warranty from Ford. Too many head is my guess.

I never had one blown out of my stock heads and the reason is I changed plugs every 6000 miles. That insured that I had plugs that were tight all the time. They would work themselves loose due to the lack of threads. On one change I made two were hand loose but never had one launch.

I changed heads at 58,000 miles but never had a launch.

If you listen carefully youll hear a little tick sound almost like a bad or leaky spark plug wire arcing. When you hear that youve got about two days to a week and it will blow.

Edited by - Greez Lightning on August 23 2006 9:01a

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 23 2006 : 9:51a

You know, my Wife used my truck one day last week to pick up her boss from the airport. I drove her Expedition a little that day and as I recall, I did hear a ticking noise coming from under the hood. I should have known better than to just let it go.

Mark05KR
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Posted - August 23 2006 : 9:58a

Quote:

Originally posted by FarFromStockF150

Wow! That price isn't even worth your time and effort to try to DIY. Plus, I'm sure it comes with a warranty. It sounds like Townsend is really taking good care of you. It's nice to see that not all dealerships are the crooks they've been made out to be.

You are right about Townsend Ford. They have been really good to work with and seem to be very customer service oriented.

There have been a couple of times when I thought they may give me a hard time about a repair and they surprised me by taking care of it the way I had hoped for. This thing with the E-brake pads is just one more example of them doing the right thing. Technically, the pads were over the warranty period, but they covered the replacement at no charge for parts or labor.

Buzz
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Posted - July 6 : 7:03a

Quote:

Originally posted by qfjsy

the plugs. It's more of a Lighting issue but it does happen to the NA versions as well. Stick around for the fix - I don't know specifically what the solution is.
SPAM LINK HERE

Did you notice this thread is from 2006?!

Of course he/it didn't Just another spam bot account.

Edited by - devnull on July 6 10:49a

MrSVTGal
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Posted - July 8 : 2:55a

Aw, man - I saw this thread come up and I was hoping there was some new info on it. Then I finally get to the bottom and... nothing!

We have about 80k on our 2000 Expy 5.4 now, and the last 10k or so was with a Lightning blower setup. So far, so good. I should really check the plugs though.

MrSVTGal

Thermo
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Posted - July 8 : 8:42p

MrSVTGal, there is a fix out there. I have done it to my truck because I blew out #3 plug. What the fix does is that it drills out the old threads and then you tap the fresh metal with new threads. Then you slide a sleeve in that place. The sleeve is then flared slightly to ensure it stays in place. 25K miles on this and no problems.

Now, the kit is around $300, but it is far better than a helicoil and for $400, I got enough to do all 8 plugs. IT is also possible to do the repair with the head still installed. But, keep in mind that you will need to ensure you vacuum out all the metal shavings before starting the truck. I didn't want to risk that possibility since I was doing all 8 cylinders. So, I pulled the heads and since they were off, ported/polished them too. Overkill, probably. But I was garanteed not to have a future problem with this.

Should you need the kit, let me know. The kit is pretty well travelled by now.

Chris "Thermo" Coleman, Nukie the radioactive 97 Ford X, and K'Re Ann the 03 Jag X

lounge lizard
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Posted - July 8 : 9:05p

hey Thermo!
did anyone sign and date the kit for you as to when they used it and where they where from?? they should have!

offroad250
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Posted - July 9 : 9:50a

lol i was wondering how this thread just popped up and suddenly had this many posts.

I had one blow on my 2001 5.4 F250

Dealer fixed it with a timesert for $388 out the door.

Helicoil is NOT the fix for this

And mine was ticking like a manifold leak for a week before it happened.

Jason

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