Blogs: 0 (Add) Vehicle: 2004 F250 7.3 PSD 4x4 Joined: Jun 2007 Member # 2917 From: South Yunder Western Au
Posted - November 24 2008 : 11:42p
I'd imagine theres a few knowlegable Ford truck enthusiasts hereabouts?
I need to get my head around some "claims being made publicly" for a modded F truck downunder.
I have a fair idea - what my Standard 7.3 PSD puts out on the dyno because I have a graph read out of it's performance.
Mine is slightly modified with the addition of LPG Injection (Autogas Butane Propane blend) performed by Dieselgas Australia http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/
You can see from the graph - that without the gas injection switched on, I get
210 Hp @ 3125 rpm's and 534 Nm @ 2688 rpm's
When the autogas injection is switched on I get:-
233 hp @ 3062 rpm's & 566 Nm's @ 2750 RPM's.
I don't have any sort of chip or tune added to the engine as yet - such as the famous Jody Tiptons DP Tuner. (But I am toying with the idea)!
I am trying to make head or tail of this post made on a downunder forum about the same model of F truck with the same LPG Injection system, that ALSO has some kind of after market chip added.
Quote:
Yesterday we had Rods Country Camping Gear's F250 7.3Navstar on the dyno at Dungog NSW and with a chip in it it produced 1640.5397 N/M torque at the back wheels.
On diesel gas installed by J&J Diesel Services it produced 2190.3541 N/M torque at the back wheels.
Rod rang on his way back to Wollongong and said it appeared to have a lot more grunt but the test would be when the 28Ft trailer is on and they are running a distance where they can check the economy by setting the cruise control he is not making any comment.
As soon as he does this and rings me I will post his findings no matter what they are as he travels a lot of k,s and it will be a fair dinkum assessment of the system working and benefit potential.
I will also ask him for a report on the oil at the first chance between changes.
I want to install Diesel gas but there appears a lot of negative vibes about the economy and I think that with the improved torque the economy should be there so we will see.
One thing he doesnt need to prove is that his vehicle is more powerful and faster than most cars on the road as he already knows this so if there is economy he should drive to get it.
I hope the results will be helpful. Ian
I am having a LOT of trouble reconciling the figures quoted in this post......the way I am reading it - this guy has basically the same engine as me with the same autogas injection system...
The only difference is he has an after market chip.
My best Nm of torque with gas is 566 Nm's @ 2750rpm's.
This "other vehicle" with the chip is reputedly getting
Quote:
2190.3541 N/M torque at the back wheels.
380% more torque with a after market chip?
And - on an engine with stock standard 7.3 powdered metal rods?
I make those figures of 2190Nm's of torque to be well over the old 1000 RW Hp!
I have the feeling smeone is paying footloose and fancy free with a spare thousand or so of N/ms of torque.
Theres no mention of exhaust mods or intake mods - no twin turbo etc etc
Frankly i think the guys lying thru his teeth.
How do i get a handle on these figures compared to the top line comptetition trucks in the sled pulling comps - they would be pretty I'd imagine happy pulling those sorta figures?.
I just can't let this guys post go unchallenged!
I think he is misleading an awfull lot of folks with his rediculous claims for a pretty much stock F 250, 7.3.
I know Jody Tiptons DP Tuner would allow me to dial up an extra 120 HP IF I modified the intake & exhaust - kept my LPG Injection, but even that would only get me into the 350 Hp+ bracket approaching 400Hp maybe if I was lucky (My existing 233 Hp with Gas and Jody Tiptons Tuner 120 Hp = 353Hp) - certainly nothing like 1000 hp + and 2190Nm's of torque being claimed publicly downunder for this mythical F truck! .
The way I understood Tunes and Chips is that - the diesel cycle is only about 87% efficient and that the programmers can mess with the fueling ratio & injection timing to gain that extra 12 or 13% of potential...
By my rough reconing - If I am making 233Hp & 566 Nm with the gas injection and I were to pick up another say 13% by programming / tuning / chip adjustements - I'd potentially gain what?
0.13 x 233Hp = 30.29Hp
and/or
0.13 x 566 Nm's = 73.58Nm's
Making my new "chipped/programmed" figures somewheres near:-
263.29HP
or
639.58Nm's
So
This leaves me wondering where all these quoted dyno readings of
Quote:
with a chip in it it produced 1640.5397 N/M torque at the back wheels
&
Quote:
On diesel gas installed by J&J Diesel Services it produced 2190.3541 N/M torque at the back wheels.
have dissapeared too?
The way I figure it - I'm missing some 500 Hp and 1000Nm's of torque, all attributable to some "miracle chip" if the posted figures are to be believed?.
Anyone got a good handle on these sorta things who can point out where my horses mutated into burroughs and I lost 1000 of em?
I am all ears if those sorta gains are actually available to me with a chip & without blowing powdered metal rods out thru my block!
I suspect a rat in the woodpile tho as far as the figures quoted are convcerned - I'm pretty confident of my own figurs coz the graph don't lie.
Can anyone help me get my head around this conundrum?
Am I mising anything obvious - no mention of bigger HEUI injectors etc!
Blogs: 25 (View) Vehicle: Ford F-550, Gixxer 750, Joined: Jun 2005 Member # 103 From: Bellingham WA Visit Gallery
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 2:18a
No way. I call bulls$it on his numbers. Get a dyno graph.
FYI - 2190 Nm is 1615 ft-lbs. 1640 Nm is 1210 ft-lbs.
that's a remarkable improvement. No PMR would EVER live to see those numbers without blowing out of the crank case.
No way would there be enough oil to support the HUEI injectors, especially with a single HPOP. P-Pumped 7.3's would be the only way to get those kinds of numbers. With those torque figures, i would imagine it would need to be up in the 600 hp range.
Blogs: 0 (Add) Vehicle: Truck? What truck? Joined: May 2005 Member # 9 From: Over yonder WA Visit Gallery
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 8:29a
And just for Flywest's benefit - I'd like to point out that DrSpeed works at PACCAR's test facility. If you don't know PACCAR, they are the parent company for Peterbilt, Kenworth, DAF and Bedford. If DrSpeed is blowing the BS whistle - I'd take it as gospel.
Blogs: 0 (Add) Vehicle: 2006 OshKosh S-Series 6x6 Joined: May 2005 Member # 86 From: Mortville WA Visit Gallery
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 10:05a
That is probably the coolest looking engine, gas or diesel, that I've ever seen. But what's with the stock dipstick and fluid reservoirs? I'd probably spend an extra $1.50 to dress those up a bit.
I's slang for a Bosch P7100 gear driven injection motor where the injectors have a preset pop off pressure - and the fuel is pressurized via plungers, ranging from 10, 12, and 13 mm plungers. Timing is gear driven, and advanced with MAP.
It can flow as much fuel as you ever want or ever need, and it's simplicity makes it a great pump.
It's not a show engine - it's a sled puller. That's why the stock master cylinder res and diprtick is still there.
I's slang for a Bosch P7100 gear driven injection motor where the injectors have a preset pop off pressure - and the fuel is pressurized via plungers, ranging from 10, 12, and 13 mm plungers. Timing is gear driven, and advanced with MAP.
It can flow as much fuel as you ever want or ever need, and it's simplicity makes it a great pump.
It's not a show engine - it's a sled puller. That's why the stock master cylinder res and diprtick is still there.
Blogs: 0 (Add) Vehicle: 2004 F250 7.3 PSD 4x4 Joined: Jun 2007 Member # 2917 From: South Yunder Western Au
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 8:14p
I'm still grinning!
I called it as BS and it seems the posters backed down.
Quote:
I will post it as soon as I can get it. I may be wrong as I only got them over the phone and if they are wrong I will apologise with humility as I did not check or query what I was told . What they actually told me was I think 1100lbs/ft with chip and 1650 lbs/ft ongas at the back wheels.
The horsepower was 255 and they cut it back to 149 (249?) and they indicated the original vehicle was around 170 odd.
Now Ill shut up and wait till I either prove it or eat crow either way Im happy to do it.
&
Quote:
I cant shut up Im an idiot for not looking harder. Reading all of your post it appears you have engine dyno figures and I quoted Chassis dyno figures.
The sytem installed on Rods F250 I m led to believe is far superior to the system you have installed.
I should get the figures tomorrow.
It seems to me that his revised figures around 255Hp & 249?Hp are a LOT more believeable with achip and gas injection.
1100 Foot Pounds is 1491 N/meters
1650 Foot Pounds is 2237.09 N/meters
Best I can make with Gas and no chip is 566N/meters so there is still something way wrong with his quoted Ft pounds figures, in his subsequent posts.
I'm really hoping to get a good look at this dyno graph...to see just what real numbers this thing is making!
Cheers and thanks for the quality info guys - I'm still grinning from watching that sled video clip - I'm off to watch it again!
7.3 PSD Believeable Hp numbers?
Posted - November 24 2008 : 11:42p
& without blowing powdered metal rods out thru my block! 
