|
|
|
Tom in Tacoma
Moderator
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: Truck? What truck?
Joined: May 2005
Member # 9
From: Over yonder WA
Visit Gallery
|
|
| Check out the latest parts and accessories from Truck Hownd |
|
|
Greez Lightning
Photographer
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2001 Ford Lightning
Joined: May 2005
Member # 7
From: Santa Clarit CA
Visit Gallery
|
 Posted
- November 19 2008 : 6:33p
| No. Not when these auto giants say they wont give up their corporate jets. I believe they said its non negotiable. Here they are asking for tax payers to bail them out but they still want us to pay for their perks. Thats a bunch of crap. Its their fault they are where they are. They could have built better cars like the Audi, VW or BMW and others that Japan build.
And then when we bail them out who's next to get in line? Soon we will be bailing out every Tom, Dick and Harry who has wasted countless millions in Executive payouts and perks and blew it all by making bad deals and poorly running businesses.
Where do we stop??? |
Edited by - Greez Lightning on November 19 2008 6:39p |
|
JD
Sprock belongs to me
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2001Ranger / 1994 F150
Joined: May 2005
Member # 46
From: Machesney Pa Illinois
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 19 2008 : 8:12p
|
Well said | |
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
|
ford_trck
Supercharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 99 1-ton CC LB manual
Joined: Jun 2007
Member # 2928
From: Peoria IL
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 19 2008 : 11:32p
| I didn't think they should have bailed out the first company. People were saying well we won't be able to loans. Well I dunno but from what I have heard people can't get loans any way right now because the economy is in the crapper so what good did this do us. None.
Now bailing out the big 3. This I could possibly go for if they make some changes as DEVNULL said. If we don't bail them out thousands of blue collar jobs will be lost throughout the United States. And how will I be able to buy another Ford in years to come. Either way I do agree that if we start bailing company's out when and where will it stop. How are we the taxpayers going to be paying for it in years to come? Thats all the light I can shed on this currently It's late and I'm going to bed. | |
Greez Lightning
Photographer
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2001 Ford Lightning
Joined: May 2005
Member # 7
From: Santa Clarit CA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 9:16a
| Devnull,
Perhaps what you say about flying with security is true. Yet I think something could be done about that. But I watched them in an interview and only one of them agreed to take a cut in salary. Any why did they not all fly on one corporate Jet? Instead they all come flying in in these beautiful big high end separate Jets with tin cups in their hands.
They make 6 to 9 million a year. Why do we have to pay their exorbitant salaries with taxpayers money? The others were not going to lower their salaries.
| |
97F1504RAD
Supercharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 1997 F-150/ 2006 Mustang
Joined: May 2005
Member # 55
From: Nor Cal CA.
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 10:00a
| I say let the Oil Companies bail them out since the two have been in bed together for so long. Oil Companies are posting record profits year after year so let them foot the bill.
One of the problem we have in my opinion is to much importing of goods and not enough exporting which is just another reason we are in the mess we are in currently.
I say if you want to import a car then you export one of ours. It should be a 1 to 1 basis.
I also think the UAW has caused things to get way out of whack. Compared to other Union employees they make probably a 1/3 more than most other union workers in all fields. Not saying the union should go but the salaries need to come back in-line with others. I believe the health care benefits still need to be in the picture also. I personally do not know the full scale of what they get but from what i have heard is that when you add up the hourly pay rate and the benefits package they are making what amounts to about 80.00 per hour while most other union works only make around 38.00 per hour. | |
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
|
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
|
Mort
Nitrous Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2006 OshKosh S-Series 6x6
Joined: May 2005
Member # 86
From: Mortville WA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 10:43a
| People argue that foreign-headquartered brands (is the Mexican built Ford Focus an import, or the Toyota Camry that is built in Kentucky?) are building cars in the United States, opening factories like mad. But they are all in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, all right-to-work states that do not allow union-only shops. Therefore, the UAW has little influence, because why would a company deal with them when they have no power?
I'm a union member, and I believe they still have some use, but their focus is not as much on the worker anymore, its on "the union." They don't seem to realize that if a company fails because of union demands, there isn't a shop to organize.
We've seen this recently with the Boeing Company, and I fear that they will move their operations to a right-to-work state in order to remain viable. If they can abandon the humongous facility here in Everett, Wa, and make it profitable, that will speak volumes. | |
Tom in Tacoma
Moderator
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: Truck? What truck?
Joined: May 2005
Member # 9
From: Over yonder WA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 11:09a
| I'm of mixed-minds on this topic. I follow it as closely as I can because I'm very concerned about our economy and the automobile industry is a very large part of it.
On one hand I say we bail them out because of the shockwave effect if any one of the big three go under. One the other hand I find myself asking why should we bail them out - they got themselves into this mess by decisions that were made long ago.
I've heard the suggestion that the oil companies bail them out. From a business perspective that would be a pretty sweet deal. The car company's stock is dirt-cheap and the oil companies are swimming in profits. It is likely to happen - I doubt it.
So here's my bottom line - I think it better we don't bail them out. If they can't continue burning through cash anymore they should file for backruptcy. That would allow them to restructure, remold and refine their companies into what they should be anyway. It would allow them to renegotiate contracts with the UAW on such things as salary and benefits. It also allows them to deal with their suppliers and vendors in the same way. With judicial oversight, things will get done. In addition - I think a proper thing to do would be for the federal government to guarantee warrantee coverage to the public to thward off reluctance to buy a product from a company that's filed backruptcy.
But there's still one thing that I think the big three need to do and that's get in touch with their market. Look at what the German, Japanese and Korean car companies have been able to accomplish. Take Hyundai for example. 25-years ago they sold crap cars (I know because I worked on them) for little money. Today they sell really decent cars for little money. Their Genesis directly competes with Lexus, Infiniti, BMW and Mercedes - for about $10k less! They've managed to refine their product line very quickly while keeping prices affordable at time when the Big Three have seen their business go down the drain over past decade. Why did they not wake up and smell the coffee long ago? And because they were slow to react - is it now our responsibility to prop them up in an "as-is" state? No, I don't think so.
Anyway - I'm very concerned about this and the rest of our economy. A poll of CFOs showed that 2/3rds of CFO plan on laying off staff - that's very very bad news. | |
SPROCKET
Supercharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 88 Bronco
Joined: May 2005
Member # 30
From: California
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 4:58p
| GMAC has already had my company clean out 1 of there major dealerships they seized in Grass Valley, N. Cal. Took me 30 men, 4 53 footers and 2 straight days. They took care of hauling the cars off, my job was to take all the parts/lifts, tools etc and they auctioned it all off at my warehouse.
Been told they will be seizing dealerships like crazy starting in the west coast and sweeping east.....so I'll be traveling if I get this account nationally....job security thanks to a crappy economy! | |
Tom in Tacoma
Moderator
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: Truck? What truck?
Joined: May 2005
Member # 9
From: Over yonder WA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 5:47p
| | And if this keeps up, and your business takes off, I might come to work for you! | |
offroad250
Turbocharged Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2005 F350 4x4 Diesel
Joined: Dec 2006
Member # 1754
From: Macedon NY
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 7:38p
| ^^^ showya needs a job  | |
im.damon.in.fla
Horsepower Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: BenzML500, 1966 Fairlane
Joined: Dec 2005
Member # 475
From: Miami FL
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 20 2008 : 8:19p
| | What's the security reasons for the CEO's/CFO's having to fly with the po' folk? I personally think that's a load of crap. I feel it's more along the lines because they don't want to fly commercial and have become addicted to the private jet lifestyle. Back to reality, you fuckers! | |
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
|
Greez Lightning
Photographer
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2001 Ford Lightning
Joined: May 2005
Member # 7
From: Santa Clarit CA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 21 2008 : 8:31a
| Devnull,
Last night I too heard the CEO's were all going to take a dollar.
But about three days ago I saw two of them on the news saying "Im Good" when asked if they were going to take 1 dollar also or would they take 1/2 Pay.
So I guess what happened is it didnt go down well at the interview and they finally folded.
Perhaps what we didnt hear on the news was the Govt saying they were not going to consider a Bail Out unless all the CEO's took a cut in pay.
One thing for sure is they are going to have to start making smaller SUV's for America like they have in Europe and the Far East that get 29 miles to the gallon. Strange thing is they make them for Europe and Far East now. | |
97F1504RAD
Supercharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 1997 F-150/ 2006 Mustang
Joined: May 2005
Member # 55
From: Nor Cal CA.
Visit Gallery
|
|
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 21 2008 : 10:11a
| Quote: Originally posted by 97F1504RAD
Quote: Originally posted by devnull
I'm also not aware of the bedfellows agreement between "big oil" and the US automakers, what exactly do you mean there?
|
All i meant by that is that the Auto manufactures have continued to build big gas guzzlers and the oil companies have continued to make billions upon billions on them.
|
In regards to the "gas guzzlers", they were simply building what people were buying. I don't believe there was any grand conspiracy going on there. Also, when you look at the % of worldwide sales the US Big 2.5 really held, it is pretty insignificant in relation to the foreign companies that have been held up as the "proper" example. | |
devnull
Mod Wrangler
Premium Member
Blogs: 4 (View)
Vehicle: 2009 Hyundai 1-Ton
Joined: May 2005
Member # 20
From: PartsUnknown
Visit Gallery
|
|
go gmc
Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 99 new serria
Joined: Nov 2008
Member # 4747
From: NH
|
Posted
- November 21 2008 : 12:32p
| | I SAY NO ITS A BISSNESS THEY FAIL EVERYDAY WHY SHOULD WE BAIL ANYONE OUT YOU MAKE BAD CHOICES YOU GO UNDER SIMPLE AS THAT | |
Tom in Tacoma
Moderator
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: Truck? What truck?
Joined: May 2005
Member # 9
From: Over yonder WA
Visit Gallery
|
|
97F1504RAD
Supercharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 1997 F-150/ 2006 Mustang
Joined: May 2005
Member # 55
From: Nor Cal CA.
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 21 2008 : 5:31p
| Quote: Originally posted by devnull
Quote: Originally posted by 97F1504RAD
Quote: Originally posted by devnull
I'm also not aware of the bedfellows agreement between "big oil" and the US automakers, what exactly do you mean there?
|
All i meant by that is that the Auto manufactures have continued to build big gas guzzlers and the oil companies have continued to make billions upon billions on them.
|
In regards to the "gas guzzlers", they were simply building what people were buying. I don't believe there was any grand conspiracy going on there. Also, when you look at the % of worldwide sales the US Big 2.5 really held, it is pretty insignificant in relation to the foreign companies that have been held up as the "proper" example.
|
I do not believe there is any conspiracy either. However neither of them made a smart choice to try and find alternative fuel sources for cars or increase MPG standards without the government telling them to do so. | |
TomZ
Turbocharged Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Lightning
Joined: Jun 2005
Member # 94
From: Huntersville North Carolina
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 23 2008 : 8:15a
| | What has gotten me the most is none of them brought a feasible rebuilding plan to the meeting. It was embrassing watching it. Yea I worked for Ford for 35 years but I am glad I retired as a cost savings! | |
Mort
Nitrous Member
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: 2006 OshKosh S-Series 6x6
Joined: May 2005
Member # 86
From: Mortville WA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 10:36a
| The reason the Big 2.5 are in such dire straits is that they think about 6 months ahead, as far as a business plan. The Japanese think 20 years ahead, and most of them aren't in danger of going out of business.
Yeah, at the time, people were buying gas guzzling Tyrannosaurus Rex motherfuckers, but what's the first rule of investing? Diversify. | |
Tom in Tacoma
Moderator
Premium Member
Blogs: 0 (Add)
Vehicle: Truck? What truck?
Joined: May 2005
Member # 9
From: Over yonder WA
Visit Gallery
|
Posted
- November 25 2008 : 10:44a
| I think GM was of the impression we all were going to just drool at the prospect of the "upcoming" Chevy Volt. I personally think that the Volt is needed, is a good idea, is about 10-years too late and is certainly way overpriced! The estimated street price for the Volt is about $40k.
I'm not sure when exactly I first heard about the Volt but I'm pretty certain it was about 20-years ago. It takes gasoline hitting damned near $5 before GM smacks themselves in the forehead and move it to production? Have they not been watching Toyota and Honda's success with Hybrid cars for the past 10-years? True, GM does have Hybrids of their own but they are over-priced and the ROI is too long for people to benefit.
To Mort's point - there doesn't seem to be any long-term thinking that's coupled with action. Other than Chrysler's "going retro" there doesn't seem to be any chances being taken. They've been too conservative, too much resting on their laurels (them'd be fat butts).
Wake up call has been delivered! | |
|
|
Bail Out?
