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Chris
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| Greez Lightning
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 Posted
- February 2 2007 : 12:30p
| The world is controlled by money.
JFK and Bobby were both killed by oil companies. They were going to put a top on fuel prices.
And now you have a president tied to the oil industry so you have a serious conflict of interest. | | devnull
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 12:38p
| I added a comment.
In summary: big deal, if you don't like it, drive something more fuel efficient, or drive less.
To me, gas is just a cost of doing business. I drive an hour each way to work, and my wife drives about 30 minutes. We spend close to $500/mo on gas. Plus, I'm going to buy a boat this summer, and I already bought a lifted golf cart to tool around the neighborhood. It's my own decision to enable the gas companies to make as much money as they do. I don't try to offset their profits, instead I just increase my own personal income. | | Chris
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 2:10p
| | Thanks for commenting on the blog, guys. I wish this happened a lot more often, as it shows there's some real interaction with the blog articles and its readers. I've made it super easy to post comments for members, so please -- whenever you have the urge, post a comment. It really makes the site look more interactive than most. It's nice having opinions from both sides. | | devnull
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 2:23p
| | It'd be cool to be able to link a blog post directly to a thread, or really to "share" the comments more directly. This thread, and the related blog seem (to me) to have a redundant comment stream. | | Tom in Tacoma
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 2:24p
| | The major issue I have is with this amount of profit (2-years running) why are they still contesting the fines levied against them for the Exxon Valdez oil spill? That's criminal in my mind. | | Chris
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Posted via Email
- February 2 2007 : 2:27p
| There is currently an automatic linking to a forum:
Discuss now in our forums: Fuel Systems
so it's just an extra click away to get to the topic. I agree, it would be
better if there was a direct link to the topic, or have the blog integrate
directly with the forum topic. That's something I'll definitely consider
implementing... thanks. | | BIG STEVE
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| Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 4:44p
| Quote: Originally posted by devnull
I added a comment.
In summary: big deal, if you don't like it, drive something more fuel efficient, or drive less.
To me, gas is just a cost of doing business. I drive an hour each way to work, and my wife drives about 30 minutes. We spend close to $500/mo on gas. Plus, I'm going to buy a boat this summer, and I already bought a lifted golf cart to tool around the neighborhood. It's my own decision to enable the gas companies to make as much money as they do. I don't try to offset their profits, instead I just increase my own personal income.
|
Wow. We should extend that argument to other businesses. Why not Banks? If you don't like the interest rate, just don't buy that car or house.
Maybe even hospitals. What the heck, if they charge too much, just don't get sick and you won't have to pay.
The oil companies claim they 'need' those profits for R&D, etc. But, please. 40 BILLION dollars profit in one year is absolutely outrageous. Just because some people can afford it, doesn't mean that the oil companies should be allowed to gouge the average consumer. | | mattadams
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 4:49p
| I absolutely love the fact that they had a record-breaking quarter, as they did in previous quarters. Want to know why? 75% of my 401(k) is in oil investments, with Exxon Mobil being about 65% of that. I made over $1000 last year just from the gains on my oil shares alone. May not sound a lot but considering that I have almost nothing in my 401(k) since I've only been doing it for a few years, that aint half bad. Everyone says diversify and I'm fine with that, but when there is one company that every single quarter is making record profits and record gains, its a no-brainer. It's like investing in Starbucks 10 years ago. You couldn't look at any major street corner or supermarket and not see a starbucks they were expanding and their stock was skyrocketing like crazy. Just gotta know when to sell... that day will be when the democrats take office, heh heh.
They charge it, and people pay it, so who is to blame? Lot better choices out there, people can buy more fuel efficient cars, combine trips, take public transportation (many of our buses here in Colorado use biodiesel so they are taking absolutely no gas!), ride bicycles, etc. I choose not to * about it, and drive whatever the hell I feel like driving. |
Edited by - mattadams on February 2 2007 4:51p |
| mattadams
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 4:52p
| | Whoops, responded to the wrong place, will respond to the blog... | | Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 5:13p
| Quote: Originally posted by mattadams
They charge it, and people pay it, so who is to blame? Lot better choices out there, people can buy more fuel efficient cars, combine trips, take public transportation (many of our buses here in Colorado use biodiesel so they are taking absolutely no gas!), ride bicycles, etc. I choose not to * about it, and drive whatever the hell I feel like driving.
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"They charge it, and people pay it, so who is to blame?"
The oil companies are "who is to blame." People have absolutely no choice but to pay what they charge.
We live out in the country. My wife has about a 40 mile drive each way to work each day. There is no public transportation available. Should she walk to work, or ride a bike? Come on! This is New England. It gets a little chilly in the winter.
What should she combine her trips to and from work with? She already does her shopping on the way home from work.
We did get a car that gets a little better mileage when we traded the Expedition (@13mpg) for a Mustang. The Mustang gets almost 20mpg. Should we have bought a Prius instead? We could have doubled our mpg to 40. It would take everyone in the USA buying a Prius (or something similar) to reduce Exxon's profits to half what they made. All the way down to 20 BILLION dollars.
The partial solution to this problem is for the government to step in and tell the oil companies to lower their prices. They are GOUGING. If a local gas station does this, they can get fined! Why not do the same to the oil companies that are ripping off everyone in America? | | mattadams
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 5:48p
| Ahh so you are in favor of communism then, where the government tells you how much gas costs, how much gas you can buy, and how much money everyone can make on everything... good to know.
I believe in free enterprise...
free enterprise
n. The freedom of private businesses to operate competitively for profit with minimal government regulation.
free'-en'ter·prise' (fr#275;'#283;n't#601;r-pr#299;z') adj.
Who is forcing you to live 40 miles away from work? Are there no housing options closer? Maybe no jobs closer to your house? That's odd, I'd LOVE to live in the country but the practicalness of it doesn't make sense, so I live in the city, where there are jobs available and I can drive 5 miles and me at work. I could be even closer if I wanted to!
Basically what you are saying is that you are living life the way you want, and are pissed off that a company is making profits because you, as other americans do, LOVE their cars and love being able ot live wherever they want and still get to work.
By the way, I believe gas prices are quite reasonable in venezuela right now. It's a communist nation, but it sounds like you approve of governmental control so it should be alright for ya :). | | mattadams
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 5:58p
| I'd also like to make a comment about this: "No wonder our nation's economy is in the *ter -- all our money is going to these idiots."
Highly subjective, and not based on any facts. The stock market is constantly hitting record highs, inflation is at a near-record low, and interest rates are still unbelievably low considering where we had been in years past. Unemployment is constantly in the 3% range and guess what, most of those people ain't lookin for work! I dont think the economy is in the *ter at all, and would like to hear some solid facts as to why it is believed to be so. Aside from home foreclosures which are a result of mortgages people never should've gotten in the first place - similiar to investing in the dot com industries in the late 90's, the economy is doing very well nationwide.
In addition to nationwide, its very well for my company, We haven't had any layoffs in years, in fact we are hiring at record pace, and paying salaries no one would have imagined 10 years ago. Our company just last year we went over the $1 billion in assets, while our division of the company now has over $5 million in the bank. 5 years ago, we weren't getting our paychecks and had filed for bankruptcy. Very interesting that this is considered "in the *ter", would sure love to see what a great economy looks like! |
Edited by - mattadams on February 2 2007 6:00p |
| Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 6:19p
| Quote: Originally posted by mattadams
Ahh so you are in favor of communism then, where the government tells you how much gas costs, how much gas you can buy, and how much money everyone can make on everything... good to know.
I believe in free enterprise...
free enterprise
n. The freedom of private businesses to operate competitively for profit with minimal government regulation.
free'-en'ter·prise' (fr#275;'#283;n't#601;r-pr#299;z') adj.
Who is forcing you to live 40 miles away from work? Are there no housing options closer? Maybe no jobs closer to your house? That's odd, I'd LOVE to live in the country but the practicalness of it doesn't make sense, so I live in the city, where there are jobs available and I can drive 5 miles and me at work. I could be even closer if I wanted to!
Basically what you are saying is that you are living life the way you want, and are pissed off that a company is making profits because you, as other Americans do, LOVE their cars and love being able ot live wherever they want and still get to work.
By the way, I believe gas prices are quite reasonable in venezuela right now. It's a communist nation, but it sounds like you approve of governmental control so it should be alright for ya :).
|
Well don't hold back, tell us what you really think.
You may want to hold off a little on the personal attacks, though. I am not a communist.
As far as government control, no, I don't think it is a good thing as a general rule. But, when there is group of companies that holds a virtual monopoly on any product, it is rarely good for anyone other than the members of that group. The oil companies have a stranglehold on the price of gasoline, they have no competition. They also have some of the most powerful and well funded lobbyists in Washington. They have pretty much Carte Blanche when it comes to setting prices. I have no problem with anyone making a decent profit from their goods or services, but to take advantage of a monopoly to reap obscene profits from those who can least afford it, is wrong.
The government has stepped into situations before, and it made a difference for the better, in my opinion. They broke up AT&T and telephone service and products got better and cheaper. If a company or industry is acting responsibly in terms of profits, no one will object. But when a company or industry takes too much advantage of a situation as the oil companies have, something needs to be done!
Please explain to me why the price of gas needs to be at this level when Exxon/Mobil and others are making more profits than any company can ever need. Profits are good. Greed is good. Excessive greed at the expense of your customers is NOT GOOD. If this continues, the oil companies will drive the American economy into the ground. | | im.damon.in.fla
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 7:18p
| "They have pretty much Carte Blanche when it comes to setting prices. "
Sorry but that is not true. Have you ever even looked at how the price is set, who gets what and how much? Bet you'd be surprised!
Also, by having the government make the states have a gazillion different blends of gasoline the price goes up drastically. How about being realistic on some of these required blends that occur from region to region? By having the government set the price low, the consumption would go through the roof and shortages would occur. Now I hope you think again about having the government add any more of their "help" to this scenario because it is not helping now and will not help if they add more. How about dropping some of those taxes on the oil/gas to lower the cost? Maybe that would help. How about building more oil rigs off our shores so we don't need to deal with foreigners? Oh that's right, the government is only here to help us and can only make things better.
Last, but not least, how do you say how much they can earn? Is one billion good? Two billion? I mean, why let them earn any profits since everyone needs gas, right? Unfortuantely, our socitey is becoming a society where they feel everything is a right and thus everything should be basically cheap or supplied to us free by the government. | | devnull
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| mattadams
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Posted
- February 2 2007 : 7:56p
| Mark, I never called you a communist, I said it sounds like you believe in the communist way of life, where the government decides what is good for people, and they are often wrong.
I'm with Damon though, why is it the governments job to decide how much profit a company can make? And lets say the government says they cannot make any profits and limits their prices and then next quarter come to find out Exxon Mobil LOOSES $20 billion. Is the government going to subside for $20 billion to ensure no jobs are lost, etc.? Governments place is not to determine how much each company makes, thats the purpose of a free economy.
As stated, gas is something you can choose not to buy. In fact, I did some research, did you know their was violence before cartoons? Yeah, a little thing called the inquisition, world wars, large battles, all before cartoons! (sorry got off on a Simpsons quote, heh heh)... but people got along just fine for hundreds of thousands of years without even knowing what gasoline was, and they were perfectly capable of making their livings, raising families, feeding their families, and ensuring that their seed lives on. I know many people who have never owned a car - seriously - they are in their 30's or 40's and have never owned a car. They take public transportation, live near where they work or near a direct bus line to where they work, and don't care. Know a little community up in Pennsylvania and other places known as the Amish? They get by just fine without having cars and gasoline.
Food is a requirement. Water is a requirement. If it came out that the water company was jacking their rates up and holding a monopoly it might be different, but they aren't. Cars are a luxury, and we got by great without them, a decent percentage of the population still gets by without them. They just arrange their lifestyle to reflect their choice and when the price of gas goes up they just laugh and laugh and laugh and continue riding the bus for 50 cents. |
Edited by - mattadams on February 2 2007 7:57p |
| Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 3 2007 : 10:00a
| Quote: Originally posted by im.damon.in.fla
"They have pretty much Carte Blanche when it comes to setting prices. "
Sorry but that is not true. Have you ever even looked at how the price is set, who gets what and how much? Bet you'd be surprised!
Also, by having the government make the states have a gazillion different blends of gasoline the price goes up drastically. How about being realistic on some of these required blends that occur from region to region? By having the government set the price low, the consumption would go through the roof and shortages would occur. Now I hope you think again about having the government add any more of their "help" to this scenario because it is not helping now and will not help if they add more. How about dropping some of those taxes on the oil/gas to lower the cost? Maybe that would help. How about building more oil rigs off our shores so we don't need to deal with foreigners? Oh that's right, the government is only here to help us and can only make things better.
Last, but not least, how do you say how much they can earn? Is one billion good? Two billion? I mean, why let them earn any profits since everyone needs gas, right? Unfortuantely, our socitey is becoming a society where they feel everything is a right and thus everything should be basically cheap or supplied to us free by the government.
|
I agree that many of those reasons are causing higher prices for a gallon of gas. Lowering taxes and/or reducing the number of blends produced isn't going to change the fact that Exxon/Mobil made outrageous profits for the past couple of years. Their profits have been increasing by 10-15% each quarter for the last 2 years or so.
I understand that the price of gas is going to go up as a result of crude oil prices rising and interruptions in supply and distribution like those caused by the hurricanes in the south. It just seems to me that the oil companies are taking advantage of the situation to pad what was already a pretty healthy profit margin. I have no problem with any company making money and growing their business year after year. But the what the oil companies are doing here is causing damage to the entire countries economy.
I don't claim to know the numbers behind the profit margins, but it seems to me that if Exxon/Mobil would cut their profits to only $20 billion dollars, that would make a significant difference in the price of gas (and don't forget home heating oil for those of us in the northern states) without putting a big hardship on the companies finances.
By the way, I don't think everything is a right or that everything should be cheap or free. I am also not suggesting that the government set prices at artificially low prices. I, like you would prefer for the government to stay out of business. But the oil companies are taking advantage of a monopoly, and are raising prices way beyond what is reasonable, as shown by the profits being made. Consumers really have no choice but to pay what they charge. If something doesn't happen to stem the rising price tide, what is next? Maybe $6.00 a gallon for gas or heating oil? Who is going to stop the oil companies from doing that? |
Edited by - Mark05KR on February 3 2007 10:06a |
| Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 3 2007 : 10:57a
| Quote: Originally posted by devnull
Quote: Originally posted by Mark05KR
Wow. We should extend that argument to other businesses. Why not Banks? If you don't like the interest rate, just don't buy that car or house.
|
Works for me. But then again, I pay cash for almost everything and negotiate a decent interest rate if I do take a loan on something like a mortgage.
I could live in a smaller house, or only have 1 place instead of 2, if I really didn't want the interest rates. Again, conscious choice.[/i]
|
I guess it would be great to be able to pay cash for everything, but not everyone has that luxury.
You can negotiate an interest rate on a loan because there is competition for your business in that industry. Most banks are making a profit, but they are not making excessive profits due to the competition over your business. If all the banks got together and decided to set a minimum interest rate that they were going to charge, negotiating a rate would no longer be possible.
That is essentially what the oil companies have done. If you don't like the price at one gas station you can go to another. The problem is, you don't save much more than a few cents per gallon. And you can't negotiate a better price at the gas station.
The oil companies raised their prices and said it was because of low supply, high demand and loss of refining capacity due to the hurricanes, among other things. I understand that. What I don't understand is, if supply is down, why did their profits rise by as much as 75%, or more? In addition to raising the price they also increased the profit percentage built into that price.
On a side note, a friend of mine owns the local Mobil gas station where I do most of my business. As the price of gas went up, his profits did not. He sets his price by adding a fixed amount to his cost, not a percentage. Sometimes he actually only breaks even or even looses a small amount on a gasoline sale if someone decides to use a credit card. He can't really raise his price because there are other gas stations around and people will drive ridiculous distances to save 2-3 cents per gallon. Also, he cannot shop around for credit card servicing because he has to get that service through Mobil. He can't even shop between the 3 Mobil gas distributors in the area to try to save a couple of cents. Mobil dictates which distributor he has to buy from. The only other thing he could do would be to become an independent dealer. Many folks, including me, will only buy name brand gasoline. | | Mark05KR
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Posted
- February 3 2007 : 11:27a
| Quote: Originally posted by mattadams
Mark, I never called you a communist, I said it sounds like you believe in the communist way of life, where the government decides what is good for people, and they are often wrong.
I'm with Damon though, why is it the governments job to decide how much profit a company can make? And lets say the government says they cannot make any profits and limits their prices and then next quarter come to find out Exxon Mobil LOOSES $20 billion. Is the government going to subside for $20 billion to ensure no jobs are lost, etc.? Governments place is not to determine how much each company makes, thats the purpose of a free economy.
As stated, gas is something you can choose not to buy. In fact, I did some research, did you know their was violence before cartoons? Yeah, a little thing called the inquisition, world wars, large battles, all before cartoons! (sorry got off on a Simpsons quote, heh heh)... but people got along just fine for hundreds of thousands of years without even knowing what gasoline was, and they were perfectly capable of making their livings, raising families, feeding their families, and ensuring that their seed lives on. I know many people who have never owned a car - seriously - they are in their 30's or 40's and have never owned a car. They take public transportation, live near where they work or near a direct bus line to where they work, and don't care. Know a little community up in Pennsylvania and other places known as the Amish? They get by just fine without having cars and gasoline.
Food is a requirement. Water is a requirement. If it came out that the water company was jacking their rates up and holding a monopoly it might be different, but they aren't. Cars are a luxury, and we got by great without them, a decent percentage of the population still gets by without them. They just arrange their lifestyle to reflect their choice and when the price of gas goes up they just laugh and laugh and laugh and continue riding the bus for 50 cents.
|
Well, please don't take this the wrong way, but those are some of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard on this subject.
A free economy is a great thing and it usually works to keep things in check. However the oil companies pretty much have a monopoly on the products they sell. I don't think it is the governments place to tell companies how much they can make. But I do think it is the responsibility of any company or group of companies to charge reasonable prices for their products. The oil companies are not charging reasonable prices, which has been shown by the profits they are making. There are no market forces at work here to stop them from charging higher and higher prices. Competition has pretty much been eliminated because the oil companies get together and fix the prices. Like you said, if this happened with water, someone would have to be done.
As for not using gasoline because no one needed it for thousands of years. That is a such a ludicrous statement. A thousand years ago people didn't have houses either, or clothes. So, anyone that doesn't like the high prices being charged should just get naked and move back into a cave? The life span was what, about 20-30 years back then. At least we would not be having this conversation, I would be long dead.
I don't live in the city, I live in the country. There is no public transportation around here. For us having a car is not a luxury, it is an essential part of our everyday lives. I know that I chose to live out here, but what would you suggest? Should I and everyone else in rural America move back into the city? I should re-arrange my lifestyle to enable the oil companies to make more and more money?
Besides, oil companies don't make all of their money on gasoline. They also make and sell heating oil. Is a furnace also a luxury I should do without?
Again, I have no problem with any company making a decent profit. My problem is that the oil companies are making ridiculous amounts of money and that is causing hardship for most people in this country. If the government doesn't step in and tell them to stop, who will? I really don't want the government to get involved, but I don't see another way. Do you?
The oil companies are probably not going to voluntarily start to self regulate. Why should they, they are making some real coin here. | | Jason
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Posted
- February 3 2007 : 9:47p
| its the governments responsibility to protect the people and we're getting fucked hardcore
by having savings in their market(s) certainly doesn't help the situation as a whole either. Obviously we cannot all STOP buying gas since it's tied to our economy, but investing in them when you have seen proof that they're price gouging us is just jacked. | | mattadams
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Posted
- February 4 2007 : 10:24a
| Here's my main problem. A lot of people think they are making a ton of profit on every gallon of gas sold. I couldn't find exact statistics, probably because I just don't know where to look, but just looking at averages from years past, $40 billion in 3 months would be about 1-2 cents per gallon profit, based on the amount of gas sold by exxon around the world. Remember, there are 6 billion people in the world. Over half those people have cars, many of them fly in planes. Some use more gas than others, some use less, but we're still talking overall about 1-2 cents per gallon profit. If 1-2 cents per gallon really affects you that much, if you think government intervention NOT resulting in more taxes would LOWER that 1-2 cents to 1 cent or half a cent per gallon, then by all means, * all you want. Fact is, government intervention would make little or no difference. Odd that its considered a monopoly when in Colorado I dont even have the choice of buying Exxon-Mobil gas! There are no stations here that sell it. Maybe it's their gas they are selling under a different name, but there is no Exxon station within 100 miles of my house. Real monopoly there...
By the way, its not jacked to invest in a company making a consistent profit. Claiming they are gouging is your opinion - again, 1-2 cents per gallon profit to me is not gouging. Look at any financial site where you can look at their actual financial statements - their traded under XOM. A recent check indicates they over 84,000 employees, with 5.7 billion shares of stock outstanding. They spent in the trillions of dollars. $40 billion is hard for us to fathom, because it is a bit amount, but you have to consider how much gas is actually beign sold in the world every day - how much of it comes from Exxon, and their profit per gallon.
|
Edited by - mattadams on February 4 2007 10:29a |
| Greez Lightning
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| Mercury
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Posted
- February 4 2007 : 7:20p
| i thought this was about exxon mobil announcing their huge profit?
Why not buy from their competitors then exxon mobil will be forced to reduce their price, and the others will follow suit..
it IS actually pretty simple - i buy from Citgo ~ No mid Eastern oil - or so they say
kenny | | | |
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Exxon Mobil Posts $40B 2006 Profit
